Stop Turning Family Posts Into Sales Pitches with Lena Robinson

David Brown: 00:00:00

de was recorded in October of: 2025

And I never got a chance to publish it at the time because I got really busy with work and some other projects and then I had some trouble getting access to the files, which is all really boring. But suffice to say I did want to get the show out because I think it's a good conversation between Lena and I and I realized that it's super old.

So just ignore some of the stuff in there where we talk about what's going to happen with the channel because you've obviously seen all the stuff that's going to happen with the channel because it's happening now. So anyway, just wanted to drop in quickly, let everybody know that and now we'll crack on with the show.

Lena Robinson: 00:00:46

Bye.

David Brown: 00:00:47

Bye. That's the camera. Not that, that. That's the camera. Hello.

Voiceover: 00:00:52

Shut up and sit down.

David Brown: 00:00:56

Hello, Lena.

Lena Robinson: 00:00:56

Hello, everybody. I'm so excited.

David Brown: 00:01:01

I haven't done one of these in absolutely ages. And that's been mainly because I've been trying to open the studio and get everything set.

You will notice that this is the new studio and I have a lovely cowboy hat and boots, neon light. Thank you very much, Claire, for, for getting me that for opening the studio and that's been cool.

And yeah, I'll probably change this up a little bit over time as we add more to it and we kind of change the look and feel until I get something that I really like and. But until then, this, this will probably be it.

Lena Robinson: 00:01:36

I mean, who doesn't like a bit of neon cowboy.

David Brown: 00:01:38

Right, exactly, exactly. So it's quite hot in here as well. Right. I have a bit of a rant today and this, this came up because of some posts that I saw this morning.

I am going to go and I'm actually going to share my screen so that we can have a look at them and talk through them and I'll do that in just a second. But basically when people do do social media and they, they do posts, there's kind of. There's two different camps.

There's the one camp where it's, you know, people like professionals may come on, they might try and teach you something and you know, they talk about something or they say, hey, here's a tip on how to do this, or here's how you approach doing that. And it's like, oh, by the way, I do this stuff and if you want to hire me? You can.

And they like, almost make it, like, embarrassing or they don't mention kind of their company at all. Right? Because what they're trying to do is provide some sort of value.

And then there's the other people who, who just post and it's like, here's my ad. Come and use my company. Here's what I do. Come and sign up. I have this program, I have this thing.

And they, they've now started to like, bring their families into it and, and they'll, you know, they'll, they'll put some random video and then it's just a blatant ad. And it drives me insane because it's like, that's not what social is about. And I used to work for a company and I ended up not working there anymore.

And this was actually part of the reason, I think, because the way that I communicated and the way that the founder of the company communicated were really, really different. And we had very, very different ideas about how to talk about the company, how to do social posts, how to do all sorts of stuff.

And in the end, like, she and I literally, we just.

I would say something and she would completely misunderstand what I meant and she would say something and I would like, we just, we literally couldn't communicate. It's the weirdest thing. Absolutely love her to death. Love to go out, have a beer with her. We have a great time socially, all that sort of stuff.

But in a professional work environment, we just couldn't get on.

And it, for me, it was because mainly what she, anytime she does a LinkedIn post for the company, it's literally just, it's all business, it's nothing else. It's like an ad.

And they may talk about a project that they worked on, or they may talk about this or that, but it's, there's no, like, personality to it at all. Do you know what I mean?

Lena Robinson: 00:04:23

So I've got to. No, I do. And I've got. And you shared some posts with me earlier today, so I've had a bit of a look up at. But why, what you were talking about.

And I've got a question to ask you. What is it about? Either is it the hard sales that is annoying you, or is it the hard sales plus family that's annoying you?

Like, what's pissing you off? Explain the rent.

David Brown: 00:04:51

Well, I mean, I think that's. It's just the blatant hard sell, right? It's like there's, it's almost like there's no attempt. Because social media is supposed to be social, right?

And it's. It's not like an advertising platform. And I think it's pretty well established that non hardcore selling works better on social media.

And all the advice is, is that, you know, if you want to, if you're a professional, you go on and you either comment as a professional on something that's maybe in the news or a topic that's coming up or whatever, or you're like trying to share something to help other people. So sharing your expertise, maybe teaching people how to do something or something like that.

You don't just write a blatant ad or you don't just take your press release that you've written and just paste it into a post and put that up, because it has no. Do you know what I mean? It's not the right environment for that.

Lena Robinson: 00:05:54

Okay.

David Brown: 00:05:55

And I think that's what annoys me the most. What's now started to annoy me even more is that people are now dragging their families into it.

And don't even get me started on the stupid, you know, the social media posts where it's people doing stupid shit, like walking back and forth and then they do this sort of, you know, this weird kind of. They're like doing stupid dance moves and stuff like that. And then, you know, they're putting that on Instagram and TikTok and stuff over some music.

And I'm like, it just for me. No, but it. Get it. But it, for some reason it gets subscribers. But I don't know who the hell these people are that are subscribing to posts like that.

Lena Robinson: 00:06:35

Okay? So I think you, you've got to cut. There's a couple of things that I thought about when I was watching the stuff.

I think, first of all, and this is not new to you and I having a conversation about this, I think first of all, the challenge is about. We've got a whole group of people running businesses that aren't marketers, right. So they don't naturally know how to do that.

You and I have been in the business of communication and content and stuff for a really, really long time. So we know how to do this shit with our eyes closed.

David Brown: 00:07:10

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:07:11

So there's that. The second thing is, and I didn't get as offended by the first one that you sent me, and I'll tell you why, I'm probably more in their target market.

Cause the problem is, and there's a good reason for me talking about this because I've always felt, and it's why my branding for FTSQ is so strong. And I used to get challenged on this all the time. By the way, everybody, FTSQ stands for free, the status quo. So you're gonna hear some swearing.

But the reason I did it so strong and I've been challenged on it over the years, was because I get people going. Are you not scared you're gonna put people off? That's the whole fucking point, right?

The reason my branding is so punchy is that I had a certain type of people I wanted to attract and a certain type of people I wanted to put off. My guess is you're the kind of person she wants to put off. Would be my guess. It's a rough gig, maybe, but you're not.

So I do think it comes down to target. Target audience. Who do you want to bring in? Who do you know?

My guess is you probably don't sit into the demographic of whatever her target audience is, which I'm guessing she probably doesn't even know. But anyway. The second thing is, is that platforms shouldn't be the issue of where and how you sell.

Because I think it depends on what kind of business you've got. So if you're trying to sell widgets, don't get me wrong, I'm not in agreement with the hard, hard sell either.

But sometimes you need to close deals fast. Cause businesses get in trouble financially, they freak out.

And I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, but if they've not done a good job of building up, and we know it takes time to build up subscribers, to build up followers, to build up a community, if they're desperate and their business is in trouble, they're gonna do that out of desperation. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but I kind of. I know why it happens.

Cause I've seen it happen in clients that I've worked with over the years, and it's not good.

But the problem is, most people that run businesses start doing marketing and sales so fucking late down the funnel because they're freaking out and they've not got enough income. My approach has always been. And it's why I think sometimes people decide not to work with me. Cause I go, how quickly can you get me a new client?

How quickly can you win me new business? It doesn't fucking work like that.

David Brown: 00:09:38

Exactly.

Lena Robinson: 00:09:39

And you and I get that. So we understand the long tail of it all. Most people in business don't get that. So they freak out.

David Brown: 00:09:47

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:09:48

So I think I understand why it annoys you. And don't get me wrong, I do think it as well, but I'm not sure it's out of laziness. I think it's out of ignorance.

David Brown: 00:09:58

Oh, it's definitely not out of laziness because they put an enormous amount of time and effort into it. Yeah, that's the other thing.

Lena Robinson: 00:10:05

Yeah, I know they do.

David Brown: 00:10:08

Yeah, I get what you mean. Let me see if I can share my screen. Let's see how elegantly it's going to do this.

Lena Robinson: 00:10:16

Do you like my blatant branding today? Love it. Sorry, that's not me doing hard sell. That's me forgetting that I'm not on my own podcast today. Whoops.

David Brown: 00:10:28

Let's see. Here's the first one.

Lena Robinson: 00:10:30

It is an interesting one, though. But I do think. I think it comes down to understanding who you want to attract. And if you understand that, you can create the right content.

But it doesn't mean you can't sell either. But I think it's. What's the percentage in the post? That's selling.

David Brown: 00:10:47

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:10:48

And I think what you showed me was 100% selling.

David Brown: 00:10:52

Yeah. Well, here's the little bit of like,

Lena Robinson: 00:10:54

look what I'm doing with the kids today, which is just.

David Brown: 00:10:57

Yeah, yeah, this is the one. So it's half term week. So yesterday I took my kids to visit the pumpkin patch. Right. Fine. That's great. I think. So far so good. Then you get to.

I wanted to pop on here to let you know that I have a couple of spots left for my media momentum package. Like, that's a total non sequitur.

Lena Robinson: 00:11:16

Yep.

David Brown: 00:11:17

You're on. Talking about taking your kids during half term to the pumpkin patch.

And now you're selling me like the last couple of spots in your thing and then it just turns into a blatant ad for everything that you're trying to do. So it's. Here's what happens when we get together and it's. It's not diy, it's not involvement, blah, blah, blah. There's two stories left, so.

And then there's a picture of her kids, Right?

Lena Robinson: 00:11:42

Yep.

David Brown: 00:11:43

So, which I'll probably blur the faces out on the video because I should do that. You should note to self, blur the kids faces out. But like, why do you put this on LinkedIn?

Like, if you want to do the last couple of spots, then put something that's relevant to the course that you're doing. Don't drag your kids into it and talk about going to the pumpkin patch.

Lena Robinson: 00:12:06

And it's like, I have a theory on it.

David Brown: 00:12:08

While I was at the pumpkin patch, I. I realized that I have two spots left on my training course.

Lena Robinson: 00:12:15

So I have a theory on it.

David Brown: 00:12:16

And this is a PR person.

Lena Robinson: 00:12:19

PR person doesn't make them a content person.

David Brown: 00:12:21

So anyway.

Lena Robinson: 00:12:23

Yeah, but I have a theory. I think the theory of it is, is that people are being told two major things, both of which I think I'm going to question on them in a minute.

One is like, funnel, you need to feed the funnel. We've been told all this bullshit by people on social media and fucking YouTube going, you need to run the funnel, blah, blah.

It's fucking bollocks, first of all. Second, they've also been told to be authentic. And here's the problem with those two things.

Authenticity and being able to talk about and communicate well from a sales perspective about what you want to sell. Because let's be honest, we're in business and we're trying to sell, especially on LinkedIn. Those two things should mesh like this. Right.

The problem is at the moment, I think they've got two things that are banging heads against each other. You've got sales and you've got marketing with authenticity. And when you don't know what you're doing, they go like that.

David Brown: 00:13:30

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:13:30

I've always believed two things, sales and marketing shouldn't be separated.

That marketing is about the communication that you have with your audience that makes them feel understood, that makes them felt seen, that their challenges are recognized and they can identify themselves in it. So that they want to become a lead or they want to buy off you.

David Brown: 00:13:56

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:13:58

The problem is, is that these people are being told to shunt people down a funnel. Humans don't like being shunted down anything.

David Brown: 00:14:07

Exactly.

Lena Robinson: 00:14:08

So they're getting taught. And fair enough, they're. They're not. If these people aren't necessarily holistic marketers.

So just being a specialist in one area, IEPR does not make you a marketing specialist. What it makes you as a PR specialist.

So they do very different things, very specific, what the objective of that is to be when you step back for and you're a marketer like I've been for a really long time, who has always had my feet across all of the things or lots of other good marketers as well. They see, they look at it holistically and they think ecosystem when it comes to marketing. And I think the problem is happening at the moment.

They're being taught by people. They're going to YouTube to learn how to do the marketing that they can't afford necessarily to pay somebody else to do at the moment.

And then they go, all right, I've got to do that thing that the man said or the woman said on the YouTube thing about funnel. And then I've got to do this thing that everybody else keeps saying about being authentic.

And they're trying to do it and they're fudging it and they're fucking it up because effectively they've not been taught properly, which is, you can't just do that and that and smash it together and hope it's gonna work. Cause it doesn't work.

David Brown: 00:15:20

Sometimes it can, but it's a very particular skill to be able to do that.

Lena Robinson: 00:15:24

But then it's not smashing it together, it's doing this.

David Brown: 00:15:28

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:15:29

And some people do naturally know how to do it. Like me. I was not necessarily taught all this stuff, although I've learned it through my advertising career.

I just naturally knew how to have the art of persuasion, for want of a better word. But I naturally. Nobody taught me how to do that thing. I. I just. I just naturally know how to do that. I'm not sure how I've.

And I get it wrong sometimes when I get in a panic and I'm trying to sell something. I know I've put content out there that is overly pushing the sales.

David Brown: 00:16:00

I'm going to.

Lena Robinson: 00:16:01

Which is I'm going to blur out the name because you've got money to bring in.

David Brown: 00:16:05

Yeah. I'm going to blur out the names on these as well later. Yeah. Because I don't. I'm not trying to call anybody out by name.

And these people are in my network, so if they see the post and if they listen to the show and they see the post, they'll know it's them. But nobody else needs to know it's them.

Lena Robinson: 00:16:19

And it's not.

David Brown: 00:16:20

And again, I'm not here to call anyone out. Here's the other one. So here's the other one. Oh, look at that. We've brought our kids into it again.

Lena Robinson: 00:16:30

See, I really liked this video. I thought it was funny. Made me laugh.

David Brown: 00:16:35

Let's just look at the beginning.

Lena Robinson: 00:16:39

The music.

David Brown: 00:16:43

Have Halloween music. We're gonna watch the whole thing. It's a minute 18.

Lena Robinson: 00:17:01

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:17:02

I mean. But again, this post on its own, in a different way, I think could be totally fine. But it's. This is a certain type of thing, right? Yeah, fine.

This is a. Hey, we've had a day out. We've gone to this castle, whatever it's called, you know, got some Music behind

Lena Robinson: 00:17:26

it,

David Brown: 00:17:30

kids in toe, Only a minute to go.

Lena Robinson: 00:17:49

Oh, that made me laugh so much. Growl at the end.

David Brown: 00:17:55

Okay, so

Lena Robinson: 00:17:59

do you want to go first or do what we do?

David Brown: 00:18:02

We have that. And then so again, taking a stroll through, you know, the Halloween trail at Sudsley Castle. Lovely. With my family.

Got me thinking right now, what do you notice? These are basically the same post.

Lena Robinson: 00:18:23

Yeah. They've been told to do something a particular way.

David Brown: 00:18:25

They've been given a test. Where have they got this? Yeah, and. And these aren't the only two.

These are just the two that came up, you know, through a networking group that I'm part of. And it's just interesting. It's like this formula of, oh, hey, I went and did this fun thing and then, oh, and that reminded me.

Or that caught me thinking and it's like, okay, who's doing this? And, you know, this one's not quite so bad.

So she's basically, you know, talking about the fact that you know where the ghost coming from and that sort of thing, and then asking a question. So this one isn't as kind of as blatant, but she still. It's almost like a bait and switch, right?

Lena Robinson: 00:19:10

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:19:10

You've got, oh, hey, look, this is a fun thing that we did with the family.

And then now it's baiting you into that, thinking that you're going to get a post talking about that, and then she directly switches over to a business post and it's like, hey, engage with my content and tell me about this. And it just. For me, that doesn't. It's just not right. It doesn't fit. It doesn't go together.

So what you see in the video and what you see in the text isn't the same as what gets delivered kind of in the. In the post. Right?

Lena Robinson: 00:19:44

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:19:45

There is another one.

Lena Robinson: 00:19:47

Do you want me to comment on this one, by the way?

David Brown: 00:19:50

Yeah, go for it.

Lena Robinson: 00:19:52

So I actually really liked this one and I think I liked it because it was slightly taking the piss, which I always like. That's how I read it anyway. It's how I viewed it. I thought it was slightly funny. The music was like, it made me giggle.

And then the growly shit at the end. All that I thought was funny. I think in the way that the content is written.

People are trying to find relevancy and hooks and I get why they're trying to do it, but I think they're kind of missing the mark in the fact that they're shoehorning in relevancy and you can't do that. But you gotta remember these are not necessarily creative marketeer types that come up with campaign ideas. And that's the difficulty. Right.

That's the challenge that these people have got is that that's not necessarily what they do all day. And again they've been mistaught. They've been mistaught by a whole lot of bullshit artists on social media telling them here's how you do it.

It's fucking. Yeah. It's not most of the time how you do it.

I have worked with some of the best creative minds in the industry and some of the biggest advertising agency groups in the world who have created mind droppingly stunning type of advertising in that. In a lot of brand advertising as well as direct marketing advertising.

So you've had a lot of stuff where it's just brand awareness and it's interesting. And what's different. There's been some things that have stood out to me that are just such simple silly things. But they've stood out. For example.

alking. I first noticed it in: 2010

The stapler used to travel round and the stapler's now on ground level three and it's doing this. Got nothing to do at all with selling fruit drinks.

David Brown: 00:22:03

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:22:04

But I went and checked it the other day because I needed to use it as an example in something else. I wanted to double check if it was still being used. It was fucking still being used. And I was like yeah, still being used. It's amazing. It comes to.

Creativity in that form is not easy to come by.

David Brown: 00:22:22

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:22:23

And I think people struggle with it. They'll probably. I'm guessing and I am taking a guess there. They're probably going to chatgpt and go what's the right format? And guess what?

It's spitting out the same shit to everybody going this should be the amazing format.

g going way back to the early: 1900

Shouldn't have.

David Brown: 00:23:01

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:23:02

Because it should have on paper and it didn't make sense on paper. Guess what? It punched you in the face. It did something amazing.

It completely broke all of the rules which are my, in my mind should always be about what can you do to break the rules.

And I am at as bad as anybody of being a one person business, trying to run my business and I sometimes don't break the rules cause I don't have time to have the creativity. Right. So I understand it. But the best stuff that always stands out, that has lasted a lifetime, generations.

I've got adverts that I watched as a child back in New Zealand that I will still mention to people that are my age and we'll all quote the ad.

David Brown: 00:23:42

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the same. Just same in America. Yeah, it's, yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:23:48

And I think people don't have time. I think they're turning to jet DPT because they're not knowing where else to turn. I think it's puffing up what everybody

David Brown: 00:23:57

else always, I feel like it's like Gary V or something probably did a YouTube video that everybody's following and they're all now just, you know what I mean? And now everybody's doing it. So. Yeah, I, I, I totally get what you're saying.

Lena Robinson: 00:24:13

He's, he won't be wrong in what he's saying because despite the fact that I'm not a fan of Gary Vee, he is a smart guy and he does know what he's talking about. Most of the time he just gives me that. But anyway, so let's look at one,

David Brown: 00:24:25

let's look at one that I think

Lena Robinson: 00:24:26

he got re ranting.

David Brown: 00:24:29

Yeah. See, how good is that? And that's why I got you on.

Lena Robinson: 00:24:33

Oh, you knew I'd be able to talk about this without any practice or research either.

David Brown: 00:24:37

So the reason that I did this is because she's got images attached to hers as well. Right. Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:24:44

See, I felt so fucking bored with it. It was not funny exactly.

David Brown: 00:24:48

But at least you know what you're getting. This is my point. Right. So she's a photographer.

She's used images of a customer that she's taken photos of to do professional photos for, which is fine. But then she's talking about the way that she works.

Lena Robinson: 00:25:04

Yep.

David Brown: 00:25:05

And she talks about how she digs into, you know, your company and your brand before she does the shoot and all the other stuff and how she works and all that sort of stuff. And then do you know what I mean? And also her only thing is basically give me a nudge. Otherwise it's, it's more like here's how I work kind of thing.

Which for me it's still Kind of an ad, but it's like, at least you know what you're going to get. So when I saw that come up, I was like, in just in my normal feed, I was like, oh, okay, I know what this is. Right. I know it's her.

I know it's her talking about what she does and talking about her photography and stuff and giving some examples of her work, which again, it's a softer kind of ad. Still an ad at the end of the day. Yeah, but it's a softer kind of ad. It's a little bit more, hey, here's how I go about things.

And it's a little bit more talking about how you work and the things that you do. It's not, hey, I have this mastermind come and sign up for my mastermind. Do you know what I mean? And, yeah, and this will be. And I apologize.

There's people in my network are probably going to think this is totally pointed at them. And it's not. It's just. It's just. It's just talking about the way that you go about it, I think. And it's obviously. Yeah, it just kind of.

It just gets my backup, I guess.

Lena Robinson: 00:26:30

And I get, and I get why. Here's the interesting thing. That one that you just showed me is probably the one I would be attracted to the least.

David Brown: 00:26:40

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:26:41

So I do think, once again, going back to my original comment, I think it depends on your audience. Like, if, you know, I'm a. I'm a. I'm quite complicated. I'm quite experience when it comes to what's good and what's not.

You know, I've spent, you know, decades in the industry of advertising and marketing, so I know good shit when I see it in an instant. And I just was like, well, that's just dull as immediate thought. I was like, I didn't even bother reading it. I didn't need to.

I saw the images and went, yeah, Fuck no. I just went, no. And that's not because it's any. And I wanna be really clear about this. There's nothing wrong with any of the three things.

David Brown: 00:27:24

No, no, no, no.

Lena Robinson: 00:27:25

At all.

David Brown: 00:27:26

There's nothing wrong.

Lena Robinson: 00:27:28

Would I do it differently?

David Brown: 00:27:29

Anybody can do anything right. Like, nothing is wrong or right. And if it, you know, who knows?

That may be their highest, you know, they may get their highest engagement off of that post than they do off of anything else that they do agree. They'll come back to me and go, well, it's all. I heard your podcast, Dave, and thanks for not Showing my name.

But just so you know, I got more business off of that post than I did off any of the other ones, so fuck you.

Lena Robinson: 00:27:54

And you know what?

That won't surprise me because the amount of times I put up content and I think it's the best fucking content I've ever created and it absolutely flops.

David Brown: 00:28:03

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:28:03

Like I have on my personal. Well, I say personal business accounts, my hobby account, which is my plant photography.

The amount of times I put up one of the best photographs I've ever, ever taken. And I put it up and it hasn't even hit 100 in the first day. And I'm like, oh, fucking hell. Right? What? What? They only got up to 50. How does. How.

And I'm sitting there going, it's an extraordinary photo in my opinion and it is my opinion about my own work. So that's always a bit wonky anyway.

David Brown: 00:28:35

Yeah, of course.

Lena Robinson: 00:28:36

But I look at it and go, that's really creative. It's a beautiful piece. It should have taken the world by storm. Nah. And then I'll put up something that's really friggin average.

Like the one I put up today is an interesting story. It's a normal plant. There's nothing weird about it or anything. Put it up. It's going great guns. And I was having like, how. How did that.

Cause I scribbled around before it this morning. Cause I was like, oh, I don't have time to do much, I'll just do that. Blah, blah, blah.

David Brown: 00:29:03

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:29:04

Oh my God. It's doing way better than some of my really creative photography pieces. And I've got to think about who my audience is.

Like, I'm still trying to figure out who that aud is. The problem is I keep thinking they're creatives, but they're plant gardeners.

So me putting up an artistic piece is not necessarily gonna tick the box. And when I think about what the topic. The last one I did, which I thought was gonna do really well, was a beautiful photo of me.

It had been pouring with rain, it had been stormy. I literally got into. I was on the road, it was. It had been pissing.

I was down on the ground and in the wet taking a photograph of some curled up leaves that had come off one of the trees, I've just realized. And it was a reflection of the water. Beautiful photo. But what gardener wants to look at dead leaves in a gutter?

David Brown: 00:29:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:29:53

So, yeah, you know, completely missed the. Missed the mark on, on that one.

David Brown: 00:30:00

Maybe it was the fact. Maybe, maybe it's the fact that it's on that they were on LinkedIn. If that had been on TikTok with a comment, maybe that would have been better.

Lena Robinson: 00:30:10

I don't think it should make any difference because I have. I've had this argument with people before.

David Brown: 00:30:14

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:30:15

About, oh, people shouldn't be putting up pictures of their family and their kids and their holidays on.

David Brown: 00:30:19

No, no, no, no, no. It's.

Lena Robinson: 00:30:21

And I go, fuck that shit. Like, put up. It's your post. Put up. What the fuck you like if you want to put that up.

And you look, I'm the kind of person that I put up very personal things about me and my life and what have you up onto LinkedIn. I put it up on everywhere. But that is my brand, that is my personality, that is me authentically being me.

And anybody that knows me knows that that's what they would expect me to put up. Right.

David Brown: 00:30:49

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:30:50

I think where it crashes is where all of a sudden it sort of has gone for. And I've been like that since LinkedIn. I've been a very early adopter of LinkedIn right from the outset. And I always communicated like that.

That never changed. It's probably got more so than that, but it's not. It's just dialed up, I think.

David Brown: 00:31:09

But you would do that as its own thing.

Lena Robinson: 00:31:13

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:31:14

You wouldn't tell some, like, heartfelt story and then go into a massive spiel about what a great consultant you are and people need to buy your mastermind on consulting. If I did before, you'll just go and you'll go and be vulnerable and open and you'll tell a story about some shit that happened to you.

Lena Robinson: 00:31:31

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:31:32

Or. Right. And you'll. And your thoughts on that and why

Lena Robinson: 00:31:35

that's important to business, though. I do.

David Brown: 00:31:37

How that. How that relates to, you know, how that relates to FTS Q or how that relates to how you do business or whatever. You're not then going to launch it.

Like, do you see what I mean? They don't go together. So it's. That's the kind of stuff you should be doing.

Lena Robinson: 00:31:52

Yes.

David Brown: 00:31:53

Is digging into that stuff and talking about the stuff. It's the stories that other people, other founders will empathize with.

Lena Robinson: 00:32:00

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:32:01

It's like I was at the pumpkin patch with my kids and I was worried because I wasn't actually doing business and I was feeling really stressed out and I thought, you know, should I be actually working? And it's like, well, no, I shouldn't. Because spending time with the family is. Is. Is an is just as important, if not more important than.

Than actually working on my business. And I've got to go home and I've got to finish writing the rest of my mastermind. But I just, I wanted to spend time.

Right, you could, you can work the mastermind in there because you could and then leave it because then people are like, oh, she's got a mastermind. What's her mastermind on? Yeah, then they go to look instead of, hey, I was with my kids and I started thinking about my. Now I don't know.

Do you know what I mean?

Lena Robinson: 00:32:43

I would have. I agree with you entirely because I think how I would have ended it would have been. I haven't had time to do anything today.

I'm out with my kids here. I'm having fun. Hope you're all having fun too.

However, tomorrow, look out for the fact that I am actually going to put a post up here about my mastermind. Go check it out tomorrow, but I haven't had time to do it today. So sorry about that. You're just gonna have to wait. See you later.

David Brown: 00:33:04

Yeah, perfect.

Lena Robinson: 00:33:06

I can do that.

David Brown: 00:33:08

Perfect.

Lena Robinson: 00:33:08

Without trying.

David Brown: 00:33:10

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:33:11

Not everybody knows how to do that.

David Brown: 00:33:13

No, we do it because we're all over the shop. And listen, let me just throw this out there. I'm absolutely not saying that I'm better at doing this than anyone else.

That is not what I'm trying to say.

Lena Robinson: 00:33:31

I mean, I am saying I'm better than other people up.

David Brown: 00:33:35

And you're. You're pretty good at it. That's fine. I'll give you that one.

But, but look, if you go back, I'm sure someone will get offended and then they'll go, start looking through my past post and go, well, your posts are terrible.

Lena Robinson: 00:33:48

You're gonna find loads of mine. That's terrible.

David Brown: 00:33:51

Yeah, my posts are terrible. So I'm not saying I'm any better than. But I don't try and mix stuff, I guess. Anyway, that was my rant.

Lena Robinson: 00:34:03

It's a good rant. I think the mixing isn't the issue, it's how the mixing occurs.

David Brown: 00:34:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:34:10

Because I don't think, you know, the one challenge I've always given to people is, you know, this life, work, balance is when you're on your own business, it's just life. It's all mixed in together. You know, there is no. I mean, people try and have a separation. I think when you run your own business, you can't.

It just all misses Meshes in.

David Brown: 00:34:31

It does. Yeah, it does. I just I also think that, I think that the, I think that things have evolved over time.

And I know, you know, old school commercials and the way they used to, you know, the, the, the copy that you used to use for commercials and ads and stuff like that has very much changed, except for some things like really hardcore direct to consumer. Like, you know, what do they call

Lena Robinson: 00:35:03

like, like, like direct marketing Advertising is what it's called.

David Brown: 00:35:06

Yeah, no, but I'm thinking about like detergent and stuff like that. What do they call that?

Lena Robinson: 00:35:11

Use.

David Brown: 00:35:12

Oh, but do you know what I mean? Yeah, like stuff in a grocery store and whatever. It's like the, the messaging around that hasn't really changed over forever.

Lena Robinson: 00:35:21

Oh, not after soft.

David Brown: 00:35:24

Like the whole using social media for ads and stuff. Like, like if you did a TV ad, that's one thing. Like you gotta get a message across in 30 seconds.

And everybody kind of knows that that's how commercials are. But social media is not a commercial. And it's evolved into something that's totally different.

And so for me, I find the content that I engage with the most are those ones where people are either giving a big opinion about something and I go, well, that opinion's interesting because I know that they're a professional in that field. I may not agree with their opinion, but that's fine. Yeah, you know, but it's. I know that that's what that is.

And it's, they're not trying to sell me anything, but what it does is it sets them out as the thought leader. Right.

And so if I ever have a question about something or I ever, like, there's a few people I know if I need help with audio editing or doing anything, you know, hardcore audio, that type of stuff, I know I go talk to my friend Mike, shout out to music radio creative. But you know, I call Mike and Isabella and I just go, hey, I have a question. Can you help me?

And because he's been on YouTube for 10 years and he's been teaching people how to do stuff for 10 years, he never mentions his company. Literally never mentions his company. There's a stinger at the beginning that says Music Radio Creative and that's it.

And then he goes on and talks about what he does. He never upsells, he never talks about buying anything from them. He just comes on and he teaches on the video and then he goes away.

Lena Robinson: 00:36:52

Do you think that the problem is about the difference between people that try and run a business and their relationships are transactional versus those that want to build relationships with people that are long lasting that are partnerships.

So one of the things I've always tried to put off is people that want to work with me and be transactional in how they're the ones that go, you know, so what do I get for so many hours? Da da, da. How the hell. What? I don't know. I don't know your business yet.

I'm not gonna tell you that it's gonna take four hours a week and you're gonna get X. Y. That's just nuts.

David Brown: 00:37:34

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:37:34

And I'm not the kind of person that is best suited to them. What they need is a consultant that's formulaic and comes back to them with the same. Goes to people with exactly the same answers all the time.

My challenge is I'm not that person and I'm not gonna fit a lot of people because they're gonna want a cookie cutter approach. I need somebody that a.

Trusts me to get under the hood of their business and wants to partner with me as opposed to give me a list of items that I need to do and then I'll just go off and do it. Cause that's. I'm never gonna do that. Yeah.

David Brown: 00:38:13

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:38:13

And I think that's the challenge is you'll. I can see there's a difference in the first two. I think they're trying to sell transactionally. The second one is not.

David Brown: 00:38:26

Yeah. And that maybe that's it. Yeah. You. That. That might be a good. That's kind of a good way. And look, I totally appreciate there's.

You know, there's a lot of business people out there who are 100% driven. They're very focused. You know, they're only interested in selling to you.

If you're not buying from them, then they don't really care and they're off to the next person. And a lot of times those people are very, very successful because they're. They're very focused. And like you said in the very beginning. Right. It's.

It's about eliminating as quickly as you can to get to the people who maybe it does resonate with.

Lena Robinson: 00:39:04

Yeah.

David Brown: 00:39:05

Um. But that's maybe because of all the. You know, I've always been involved in service businesses and service businesses don't run that way. They're not.

It's not a car wash. No.

Lena Robinson: 00:39:17

Right.

David Brown: 00:39:18

You don't just get as many people in the door as you possibly can, treat them. Okay. While they're there, but then get them out as quickly as possible and hope they come back in a few weeks when they need to. They need you again.

Whereas you know, being a travel agent or something like that, that's like you've got to work with somebody, you've got to get to know them, you've got to understand what they want because you're helping them with a holiday for themselves and their families or whatever. And it's a, you know that you need to deliver more of a service and it's more of a long term relationship type thing. So you could be onto something.

It could be that it could just, you know, it's, it, it does feel very impersonal and it just, I don't. Maybe it's. I don't know, I don't know, it just, it, there's just something about it.

Just it, it just feels like, oh, I've tricked in, I've tricked you into getting your attention and now I'm going to sell to you. It's the bait and switch element of it. I think that I don't like it's here's my kids, now I'm selling to you.

Yeah, I think that's what bugs me about it the most is, is it feels like, yeah, you're not delivering, you're not giving me what you seem to, what you said you were going to deliver.

Lena Robinson: 00:40:27

I'm guessing too though that's been completely accidental because I don't think that's been their intention at all. Yeah, I think their intention is to seem.

David Brown: 00:40:38

Well, why are screen.

Lena Robinson: 00:40:40

To come across as human and to come across as authentic and to come across as something that people can, it can, will resonate, you know, because you know people that run businesses and even career people, you know, if they've got kids, they're balancing it all and they sort of think, well, maybe another person that's in this position will understand that balancing act. I think the idea is right, I think the execution's just off.

David Brown: 00:41:11

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:41:12

But I also to your point about the transactional like, like you, I've predominantly been in the service industry. Although I have done jobs where I've like sold jewellery at party plan and all that kind of shit. That's proper hard sale.

But what I think the problem is is that I've seen a huge amount of consultants and service oriented people and they sell transactionally, they don't sell consultatively. And I was having, weirdly I was having this conversation with my dad the other day cause I was checking in with him like how he.

Cause my mum was one of the first salespeople in New Zealand for Sky. She used to have to know how to Even put in the sky boxes really early on. My mum is hard sales, Susan. My dad is consultative. Weirdly.

I'm a mashup of the two of them depending on the situation. So I'm probably more predominantly consultative sales. Like I'm happy when some. When I'm not right for somebody to tell them, I'm not right for you.

I think you'll be better off with somebody else. Now that's consultative brain.

David Brown: 00:42:25

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:42:25

My mum would have flipped that around and tried anyway to convince them that it was the right thing. And she's really good at it as well. Don't you?

David Brown: 00:42:32

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:42:32

Yeah. Really good at it.

David Brown: 00:42:33

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:42:34

Can I close a deal when I need to? Yep. No question. And I've got that from her.

But my dad was also extremely successful at nailing the quotes that he would do with people because he could. He just was nice. He's a nice bloke and people liked him, the husband, because he had a landscaping business. Their husbands liked him.

The wives liked him. He's just a nice. He's just a decent bloke. He can talk to anybody. But he's not a hard salesperson.

David Brown: 00:43:01

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:43:02

But he did know how to close deals. But he did it because he felt it was the right answer for them rather than, I need to close the deal. And I think that's the difference.

And I do think that maybe what's jumping around is that people who aren't natural salespeople don't know which side they should be on, whether it be consultative or sales, and know when to switch it. Because I've had people say to me, how do you know? And I don't know the answer to this, by the way.

They'll go, how do you know when it's time to close? And it's a really hard answer because I actually don't know. It's instinct. I just know when to close the deal or not.

David Brown: 00:43:42

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:43:42

And I can't tell people when's the point?

David Brown: 00:43:45

Because I know it's just a feeling.

Lena Robinson: 00:43:46

It's a feeling. It's an instinct. It's something I've always had. Do I get it wrong sometimes? Yeah. But more often than not.

David Brown: 00:43:54

Or if you listen to the. Or if you watch Glengarry Glen Ross. It's abc. Always be closing Coffee Closers.

Lena Robinson: 00:44:03

Yeah. I'm not sure if that's always be closing. But I mean, we. I know the end goal is to close the deal, but I also know when to stop pushing.

David Brown: 00:44:13

Yeah.

Lena Robinson: 00:44:13

And enough's done. But I don't think lots of people do know how to do that.

So transactional versus consultative may well be one of the challenges that people have got to overcome in this content. Yeah, maybe.

David Brown: 00:44:26

I apologize to all of my friends who I've used examples of. I will. I will go through and block out everybody's names.

So at least it's not going to be glaringly obvious who it is that I've been picking on today. But. Yeah. Cool. That's about 45 minutes. We should probably wind up. Do you have any. Any final thoughts, or should we just crack on with our day?

Lena Robinson: 00:44:48

I could just give one piece of advice to people, which is. And you pulled it up earlier. If you tell stories that resonate with people, that people will recognize themselves in. In the way that you.

You talk about your business and your brand, that will win over more hearts and minds than anything. Well said. That's where authenticity comes from, is good storytelling.

David Brown: 00:45:13

Yeah. Yeah. 100% brilliant.

Lena Robinson: 00:45:16

Cool. Thanks for having me on.

David Brown: 00:45:19

I think we'll do that. We'll leave that there for today. Um, I'm gonna start getting some more people coming in for this show as well. And now that I've kind of got a setup.

And that's a good setup. Yeah. The problem is, is I can't do it by myself, so I have to have somebody here with me to.

Particularly because the setup changes, like, every day because everybody comes in and we have to do a different setup for everyone. Um, well, you know, I'm always that

Lena Robinson: 00:45:44

person that you can message, like you did today and go, I've got a rant I need to do. I'm well up for that. Yeah. Each time.

David Brown: 00:45:54

I'm. I'm sure people will see you again.

Lena Robinson: 00:45:58

Thanks for listening.

David Brown: 00:45:58

Thanks, Lena. Thanks, Lena.

Lena Robinson: 00:46:01

See you later.

David Brown: 00:46:02

Bye, Nick. Bye.